If you have BendBroadband for TV service you may lose your ability to watch Fox on the first of the year because of a dispute the local Fox affiliate and BendBroadband are having. I don’t have an opinion one way or another right now, as I haven’t really researched it all that much (though I do have a digital over-the-air box somewhere in case this does get messy) For everybody’s reference, KFXO’s side of things is here, BendBroadband’s side of things is here, The Bulletin story here, there is a ton of discussion here and a one-post blog has been created here.
You’re welcome to comment, discuss and share your opinion here, as well, but since I haven’t really had a chance to research this at all, I probably won’t comment at all. That, and the holidays are here and when you have kids, your mind is on the holidays, not this kind of thing.
Comments
We’ll be canceling the tv portion of our bendbroadband account in a couple of weeks. With digital OTA, there really isn’t any reason to be raked over the coals anymore for tv. BBB is profiting from the KFXO broadcasting as long as it’s included in their package. Their website states that they don’t and subscription fees aren’t being charged for broadcast channels. If I buy a compatible digital cable box would that mean that I can get the bbb broadcast stations for free? Of course not.
Q: What would cable be without broadcast channels?
A: Satellite TV. Cable penetration in Deschutes County is 67%, satellite penetration is 25%. Why the difference? Local broadcast channels are available on cable and not on satellite. Consumers should know that with a simple antenna from the local Radio Shack you would be able to recieve all the local channels available on cable. Most satellite installers can easily set up your tv to receive the local stations and the cable channels and you would pay less for more channels, why is that? Cable knows that consumers will pay more to have their local broadcast stations. Wait until Direct and Dish Networks have the ability to carry them, cable’s subscriber base will be in free fall due to the years of bullying the average consumer.
I thouhgt BBB didn’t charge for local broadcast stations? 15 of the channels listed below are broadcast stations, Ad Central 4 is nothing but advertising, Home Shopping pays to be on the cable system, the religious channels either pay for access or are offered for free to BBB, who the heck uses the music channels anyway?, so I guess we are paying $17.95 for the Weather Channel and Weather Channel HD. What a bunch crap! Don’t be fooled, the local broadcast channels will always be available for free over the air, and you can get your favorite cable channels, plus many more options for less, from your local satellite providers. If BBB wanted to really help you they would install antennnas like the satellite providers do. Long live free local TV!
From the BBB website: $17.95
Enjoy 25 Standard Definition channels, 7 High Definition channels, 45 Music Choice channels, along with hundreds of hours of Video on Demand and Pay Per View. Want More? Upgrade to our Family, Essentials or Preferred Packages.
Ad Central
BYU – TV
CBS – Bend
COCC
COTV
CSPAN
CSPAN-2
EWTN
HSN
iLife
KFXO – FOX
KOHD – ABC
KVAL – CBS
NASA Television
NBC – Bend
ODOT
OPB Create
Pay Per View *
PBS – Bend
QVC
TBN
Telemundo
The CW
The Weather Channel
7 High Definition Channels at no additional charge!
CBS – Bend (KBNZ)
FOX
KOHD – ABC
KOPB – PBS
KTVZ – NBC
KVAL – CBS
Weather
Direct TV Package: $29.95 with antenna you get locals for free:
The FAMILY™ package includes the following channels:
Bloomberg Television
Boomerang
BYU TV
C-SPAN
C-SPAN 2
Christian Television Network
Daystar
Discovery Kids
The Disney Channel
DIY Network
EWTN
Fit TV
Food Network
GMC
GEMS TV
GOD TV
HITN
Hallmark Channel
Headline News
Home & Garden Television
Home Shopping Network
Link TV
The N
NASA TV
National Geographic Channel
Nickelodeon
Nicktoons Network
Noggin
NRB Network
ONCE Mexico
PBS KIDS Sprout
QVC
RFD TV
The Science Channel
ShopNBC
TCT Network
Toon Disney
Trinity Broadcasting Network
V-me
The Weather Channel
Word Network
World Harvest Television
From the BendBroadband website:
Does BendBroadband currently charge it’s subscribers a fee for KFXO and other local broadcast stations?
Answer, Like other cable companies BendBroadband offes what is know as a lifeline service. this is a package consisting of broadcast channels, shopping, religious, public affairs and weather. In addition because BendBroadband is all digital, the package contains 45 music channels, access to VOD and an interactive programming guide. The prices of BendBroadband’s video products are based on the cost we pay for cable networks contained in each pacakge of channels, the cost of running our broadband operations, for example customer care, technical support, service, administration, etc. and to pay for the significant investment required to maintain our broadband infrastructure. Over the past 10 years BendBroadband has invested over $80 million dollars. Today we maintain and support over 1500 miles of coax and fiber cable, an extensive array of satellite delivery technology and the equipment that allows us to operate an all digital cable system. Today we do not pay for KFXO or other broadcast stations. Thus contrary to the claims of KFXO, these costs are not covered in our pricing and you are not specifically paying for local broadcast stations. KFXO is attempting to shift the focus from the real issue here which is that they now want you to pay for something that is free over the air. This is discriminatory pricing, it will set a precedent for other broadcast stations and it will lead to higher cable TV prices.
BendBroadband also offers a comparable family packaged for under $30.
Fox Fan. Can you please explain what you mean by BendBroadband “bullying the average consumer”? Please be specific.
For a lot of Deschutes County, even Bend, an antenna isn’t an option. Here in Kings forest, an antenna will pull in 2, maybe 3 channels at the most. Forget ABC, CBS, Fox and CW.
it appears to me that foxxy came on at the last minute and is holding BCS games hostage.
that is highly bogus for foxxy to wait until the last minute to hold us viewers hostage as leverage.
also, bet that the foxxy footprint (like Nameless One states) is a bunch bigger with the cable footprint … so foxxy loses more advertising dollar.
foxxy is really being clueless with trying to wait until the last minute, trump the bulletin, and lose eyeballs on their crappy programming.
I watch channel 10 most of the time. Why can’t subscribers selct their own packages. I would gladly pay for channel 10 broadcast and drop 50 0f the stations I receive. I am also a Univ of Oklahoma grad and will hold Bend broad band reaponsible for not broadcast the BCS bowl game . All the mor reason to go to DISH TV or other cable systems.
Tom, I totally agree that dish or direct would be the way to go or picking your own channels. But can you tell me how you can watch the game on either one of them when they will not offer any of the major networks in Deschutes county?
What I would really like to know is why there are no options other than air or BBB to watch the major networks? I didn’t spend $1500+ on a plasma HDTV to watch a static filled over the air picture. This sounds more like a monopoly than anything else to me. AT&T has TV options but not in Bend. Verizon has TV options but not in Bend. Sure we can use their cell phones but not their TV service. We can get Dish or Direct but can’t get the major networks. It really appears that we are being take advantage of here. The big question is WHY?
Now for the battle between BBB and KFXO. Should we pay more to have FOX? Absolutely NOT!!! Should BBB refuse to broadcast them? Absolutely NOT!!! Who is right and who is wrong? Who cares. Figure it between yourselves and don’t deny us programing or raise our rates!!!!!
So many questions and comments here that it’s hard to respond to them all. But I’ll try to hit the highlights.
The reason local channels are not on satellite: because satellite has chosen not to offer them. This requires an investment of satellite bandwidth and more on their part. It’s their choice.
The reason we don’t have other video providers in this area – simple. The cost to provide that service given our low density and wide spread housing is prohibitive when you split the available revenue among multiple companies. It requires many millions of dollars in capital cost to place the service and many more millions every year to support it. There is only one cable system but there is more than one provider of video, high speed and phone and these are national and regional companies with considerable pricing power and marketing – this is not a monopoly it’s a duopoly.
Why can’t I choose my own channels? This is forbidden by broadcasters and cable networks. If you could choose your channels, they would not have as many eyeballs for advertising. Also most cable networks get a fee per subscriber and this would go down as only a fraction of all subscribers would choose any given channel. We do have some examples of pay channels that are available commercial free ala carte. HBO, Showtime, Cinemax. These run around $10-$15 per service. Imagine if other popular networks went this route. You could purchase 4 channels for $40-$50. While packages may appear expensive and picking your own more desirable, no one really knows how this might work out and what you would pay. There are other issues as well – administrative cost to handle the calls from people adding and removing channels all the time is one example. Beware of unintended consequences!
As to the Fox situation, simply put BendBroadband is looking out for our customers who are very concerned about the price of cable. We’re working to get the best deal not only for KFXO but also taking into account the impact this will have on negotiations with our other local broadcast stations who are sure to follow. Please see the latest press release, posted on the website. We are truly sorry that Fox appears willing to pull their signal during this important viewing time in an effort to gain agreement to demands that are excessive and unfair to cable viewers.
Always happy to provide insights.
JFarwell you don’t come right out and say it but its pretty obvious you are a member of the BBB family.
#1 I don’t see any comments about “local” channels. They are major network channels that I personally was referring to. Personally I could care less about a “local” FOX station. They don’t offer anything different than the national feeds that I have seen. Oh yeah they do have local news pulled right of their sister station KTVZ, that’s a thrill listening to people that can’t get through a couple sentences with out stumbling.
#2 Multiple providers. Yes, this is too small of a market for two cable companies. But obviously something is up if you live in Deschutes county and can’t get the major network feeds from Dish or Direct. You state that this is a duopoly, this is obviously not the case if we can’t get the major networks. And by “major” I mean ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX.
#3 Simply put “you” may be looking out for “your” customers, but come on if you were really looking out for your customers you would be providing a service at a competitive rate and giving us what we want. Your internet rates are high and service unreliable. Your TV rates seem to be high. The programing options are limited with a bunch of stations that nobody watches. You have to buy bundles of stations that don’t go together. You don’t offer stations that people want and request. Your signal quality is hit and miss, I’m sorry but when you pay over $5 for a HD movie on demand the picture should not get all the little digital blocks in it or lock up and the sound should not freeze up.
You know it really seems that “you” at BBB are refusing to accept ANY agreement with KFXO because ummm they want a clause in the contract that they can provide a local feed to Dish or Direct. Can you in fact provide proof that you don’t have a contract with these “local” stations that says that they or their partner networks cannot be provided via other services in Deschutes county? I think that Dish and/or Direct has offered KFXO this penny per subscriber and that they want you at BBB to pay the same fee and you refuse.
I’ve had Dish, Direct, BBB and Comcast all and all BBB is poor quality, over priced and very poor customer service.
JB – I have been posting for over a year as a BendBroadband senior manager, so I no longer identify myself each time.
Please visit our website and read the press release regarding our attempts to strike a win win deal with KFXO.
The arrangement with satellite and broadcast channels is entirely out of our control. Satellite offers out of market broadcast and only those that cannot receive over the air local channels are allowed to receive out of market channels and only with permission of the local broadcaster. I understand this is complicated and not well known but it is fact.
BendBroadband’s service prices are very competetively priced and our uptime is very good – so I have to totally disagree with you on this one.
Well if satellite offers out of market broadcast for stations that cannot be received OTA, then why over the last 7 years have I not been allowed to get ABC or CBS? These were not local stations and I could not receive either OTA (yes I know you can’t speak for the satellite companies). This sounds like a farce. Ok, great so I shouldn’t have been allowed NBC or FOX(for the last several years) but why not the others?
(Note to Dish and Direct offer us networks and you will gain an easy 30k plus of new customers. WE ARE TIRED OF THE MONOPOLY AND PRICE GOUGING!!!!)
(Note to BBB internet subscribers, if you can switch to clearwire. Best internet service I have ever had, unfortunately I now live outside their coverage area)
jb … your statements makes no sense and is flamebait. craigslist is the place for attention.
i did get an antenna today and have a digital tuner already. the signal sux for foxxy.
you might want to move back to the cali … i think it’s really hip that the folks at BBB write and respond on this forum. also, i have BBB for about a decade and have had great things to say compared to big cable/satellite providers.
talk intelligent, flame elsewhere for attention, or review job opportunites back in the big ugly.
JB.
I’m sorry you feel the way you do. Your feelings and perceptions are your own. I can only state what I know and believe to be true based on my own analysis. You use the words “price gouging”. BendBroadband prices are competive and fair based on my personal analysis of competitors and my knowledge of the cost to run this business.
As to why you cannot get out of market broadcast stations I cannot comment. If you cannot receive a grade B over the air signal, you are supposed to be eligible and just need permission from the local station.
No offense butg satellite won’t get 30,000 customers by offering local channels. BendBroadband typically scores 80-90% high approval rating from customers in our ongoing surveys. While you may not be happy, we have many many very happy customers – we aim to please and that means all 200 of us. Sorry you are so down on BendBroadband – I wish I knew how to change that.
Off topic a bit, but Fox’s signal comes off a different butte NE of Bend, not off Awbrey butte, according to AntennaWeb. So you may have it pointing the wrong way.
Jake,
Fox currently has signals coming from 3 locations according to our technical folks. Powell Butte, Awbrey Butte and their facility. Depending on the location of your home, one or more may be available or none. they are a low power station and thus truly benefit from their expanded footprint provided by BendBroadband’s cable system. I understand we increase their footprint by 30-40%. You’d think that’s worth something….
KFXO rejects BendBroadband carriage offer, will remove Fox signal
While I won’t make it until midnight, as I’m tired, I do know one thing: I probably won’t have KFXO on my TV tomorrow, if BendBroadband’s press release is to…
Oh yeah, I completely forgot that KFXO was low-power. Yes, I am curious about their motives here.
Well the motive is simply, increase revenue by requiring a per customer fee from cable companies. It’s a fact that local ad spending is on the decline. Also let’s not forget that this region has seen an increase in local broadcast affiliates coming in just in time for the recession. Add to that the fact that national advertising is also declining due to the economy. Thus the movement to make up for it by charging cable companies and thus their customers.
foobar. Wtf is flamebait speak English, and I was born and raised in central Oregon.
And to your FOX signal issue (not knowing where you are located). Try this, take a piece of cable and strip one end down to just the bare copper lead. Insert it into your antenna input and try that make sure its the ground doesn’t touch or your signal quality will go down. I’m on the south end of town and just did it and got a better HD pic than I do thru cable.
JFarwell, I’ve been a long time BBB customer (on and off over the past 12 years) and have been fairly well satisfied up until about 5 years ago. The customer service has been poor since that time and the quality of signal has gone down. I don’t know who you poll for your customer satisfaction surveys, but I haven’t spoken with anyone who is satisfied with BBB. I’m very happy to say that I just did a little test (read the post to foobar) and it worked very well. Only “local” station I don’t receive is CBS. So based on that I will be happily be canceling my BBB account!!!!!!!!!!
jb … i have a 22 dB active antenna to try to bring SNR/MER to acceptible limits for a good screen. i’m not going to place an outside antenna in order to get a better signal as 700 MHz should blow through a stick frame just fine. i don’t need foxxy … but i feel for those who do watch the station.
i’m glad you have a good signal … a good portion of bend will not as fox has a low power license.
for flamebait … go to google, wiki or your source of choice. it’s not in webster.
the problem i have is that a large OUTSIDE oregon company sees us as one of many small towns that can be squeezed for their revenue shortfall.
you can have a personal opnion of BBB, thats fine, but that is not germane to the discussion. we are talking about a big national company giving us the shaft.
ps … germane is in webster :}. have a good new year, i’ve got a party to attend to.
so its ok for a local company to give us the shaft? ones as bad as the other.
so if i understand this all kfxo wants about $1,460,000 a year that’s an approx. number but if you think that’s fair when i can just put and antenna up and get it for free share some of your money with me i am going to side with bend broadband on this one what i have gathered is kfxo wants 1 cent per customer per day bend cable has about 40,000 customers that’s 1.46 million a year that’s a lot of money i don’t want to pay more just for fox if it were up to me i would say just drop fox i don’t need it that much anyways
whatever dude …
we all have opnions … there are folks who actually feel that Sarah Palin is qualified to be president too and that dinosaurs walked the earth with humans in an earth created 4,800 years ago.
god bless ’em.
we are glad to hear your opinion of cable, cold french fries and rhinoplasty.
we’ll just have to beg to differ sahib.
yup whatever…
that 1.46 million was the offer that bend broadband offered and kfxo refused because they are the ones that are money hungry not bend cable
@JB
Wow dude.
“Insert it into your antenna input and try that make sure its the ground doesn’t touch or your signal quality will go down. I’m on the south end of town and just did it and got a better HD pic than I do thru cable.”
… did you just claim that SD air broadcast is better than HD? And you claim to have an HD television? I’m sorry, but that’s simply impossible.
SD is at most 704 by 480 at 16:9 and 640 by 480 at 4:3.
HD runs the from 1024 by 768 to 1280 by 1080.
Do the math. HD television has a minimum of 2.74 times more pixels, to a max of 4.5 more. Unless your television is smaller than a microwave oven, you’re gonna notice a difference.
Secondly, clearwire, your recommended ISP, is infamous for blocking VOIP, and sucks whenever it rains or snows.
Do what you will, I’ve enjoyed my BBB service, and serious props to whoever decided to not raise the prices in the last 5 years (the duration of the time I’ve been subscribed. It might be longer)
F*&K YOU!!! Greedy bastards. I want my football back.
if z21 and foxxy hadn’t have sold to the big eastern mothership we wouldn’t be in this pickle.
we are just an area to be squeezed for money in a sinking broadcast advertising ship.
it sux. maybe now that the boom is over we might want to purchase from local businesses or join the corporate mothership eh.
A word to BBB: Stay the course. Thank you for doing the right thing here. Most companies wouldn’t stick out their necks like this.
A word to Foxxy Loxxy: Look around you! We are in an economic downturn. Many are without jobs. Stop being so greedy.
why isn’t foxxy giving out antennas as it increases their viewership for advertising.
for note, it appears to be back up. i’m going to be pretty peeved at foxxy and z21 for awhile … time to move to kohd and kbnz programming.
guess we will get the scoop tomorrow. all i know is that i hope that it was foxxy that got less $$ out of the region …
lets keep our businesses local.
Well… Not about to support fox, but I can tell you that bbb is ‘withholding’ facts from y’all. I’ve been in bend for 13years only, and being deeply involved with IT, I’ve kept a close watch on how bbb evolved. Why don’t we have other cable provider options anymore than the satellite providers won’t include local channels (which, they will for a very high cost as literally, they just pay bbb subscription fees)?
Answer- bbb has held this area hostage since the day of its inception. I know their ‘higher ups’, who are the ones on here arguing in their favor will tell you all sorts of stuff, but what they won’t tell you about are the special interest ‘agreements’ they have with the city of bend and deschutes county locking this area down. The cable lines technically aren’t theirs, but several years ago, bbb formed a threeway business agreement with electricians servicing cable lines and the cable line owners and locked them down. In sunriver, there is a different local supplier… Not! That supllier charges more then bbb because they too, have to pay the full bbb subscription price.
Don’t be fooled by bbb’s $80 million investment as this includes a bigger building, higher corporate pay and little else for the customer. Bbb wouldn’t offer disney 5 years ago because disney wanted $4 per subscriber. Hmmm… Sounds like the fox deal, doesn’t it. Enough complaints to disney based on bbb’s partial misrepresentation of the truth, involvement from their city/county/state friends and the fcc and voila- disney’s now in some of their specialized packaging.
Oh wait- I’m still lying, huh? What about this digital demand crossover? Let’s see, G4- gone. HISW- gone. MSNBC- gone. And the list goes on. For those of you with half a mind to think for yourselves, compare your digital subscriber bill and channel selection today with bbb only 1 year ago. Wow, we are paying a lot more (and don’t be fooled- read this in a year after looking at your bill hike and tell me I’m still wrong because it’s going to continue to increase- and not because of the economy), and we’re getting a LOT less. Bbb’s answer to this:” well, we were providing those channels as a courtesy at our own cost, but can’t afford to carry them for free anymore, but if you’d like to add that package to your bill….”
Right… Just like they carried disney for free, or fox, at their own cost? Bbb did what all the cable companies in this country did- people, the digital cable revolution (and if you know anything about the belson ratings, you’ll understand the logistics of what I’m about to tell you), instituted the digital cable crossover years ago to monitor the channels we watch the most. Oh sure, that’s conspiracy theory. Go ahead, turn on your television right noe- this second, look for shows you’d like to see that aren’t part of the ‘local’ group, and see if those channels are free…. (Oh yeah, we still get spike, but that’s through a backdoor deal on a local level- check it out if you don’t believe me- they too, re technically local… To oregon). The science channel was cut out for pete’s sake! A channel we could learn from! Court tv was aced!
Still not convinced? 8 years ago, there was a stink about bbb not offering low prices to the disabled or refunds for outtages that were their fault. Their answer: “we only charge $30 per month on average, that’s $1 dollar a day, and that’s cheap. If you can’t afford that, then maybe you need to better manage your finances.” YES- they said that even about disabled people!!! These are the same people fox is telling you are lying and bbb is telling you how they are fighting for you and, oh yeah, are charging over $41 for the “mandatory” digital cable. Als the same people that offered a nice, large, advanced, customizable cable box (with a buit in tivo and similar related functions) for 1 free, and $5 additional per room, and now- well, I’ll let you be the judge.
These are the same folks that used to charge people $35 (if you subscribed to cable a
AND rented their cable modem, else it was $45) per month, PER COMPUTER for internet until they claim, “well, we can’t track it, so there’s no reason to worry about it,” (sounds reasonable? Not!) But really were caught doing something they had no real business legally or ethically doing and all the sudden, fols who’d been paying $80 and more, per month, for their internet for a year or more, paid the $35, and bbb’s ‘explanation’ got them out of being forced to give refunds. Yeah- go ahead listen to their explanation, live in blissful ignorance of the truth and maybe you too, like a sheep, could be lead by a wolf in shepard’s clothing to a pasture filled with wolves. Up to you.
Oh, one last thing, just because bbb deserves this- during this digital crossover, those who didn’t ‘submit’ started losing channels- starting with the highest viewed channels (ie scifi), with a blue screen explaining that in order to make this conversion to digital, they had to conserve bandwidth. So- let’s start with the truth- if you’re channels are taking up bandwidth, and you don’t subscribe to hbo, show, cmx, tmc, enc or strz, wouldn’t that be about 30 or so channels of available bandwidth, per se? And, if they offer scifi thru analog, it’s the same broadcast they offer thru digital (except that the digital signal is encapsulated within a scrambled frequency, taking up infitesimally small and negligible bandwidth levels but requiring a digital decoder). And, for those of you watching the news, bbb and others have been put on ‘hold’, because uncle sam’s caught onto their no-broadcast signal attempts… So, how honest are they being? Well now, let’s see the ceo of bbb talk himself out of this one.
Who am I? A flamer? Distrungtled ex-worker? Cable guy? Nope- just a member of the public with ties in politics and some big business friends, who ‘club” with the bbb folks, and it’s amazing what you can learn if you sit back quietly, research, and listen!!
This is very valuable post for me thank you very much
To anyone reading this. Please be aware, that the “insider” information provided by pcguru above is highly inaccurate.